Episode 34 · 2020-08-29 · 52:58 · Original in Finnish
Hostage negotiation and pressure | Helena Åhman | Negotiator 34
Originally published as “Panttivankineuvottelut | Helena Åhman | Neuvottelija 34”
Helena Åhman explains how the methods of hostage negotiators transfer to the executive team and to difficult conversations at work. The conversation covers the difference between George Kohlrieser's and Chris Voss's schools and what they share — situational awareness — probing values and identity before reaching for solutions, the alpha–beta–gamma roles inside a negotiating team and the amateur mistake of not using them, regulating your own state under pressure through breathing, and building an emotional bond in spite of friction.
Watch and listen
Key moments
- 00:00 — Cold open: five hostage negotiators met in person
- 01:54 — Introducing Helena Åhman
- 02:17 — Books, crime novels and dark photographs
- 02:34 — The Nokia background and developing executive teams
- 03:30 — Pressure situations as a research subject
- 03:50 — Two shifts: Harvard's BATNA and the no culture
- 05:00 — A situationally aware toolkit instead of one model
- 06:03 — Books are always simplifications
- 06:29 — Criticising Voss: anchoring versus waiting for the offer
- 08:15 — Party to the conflict or mediator under pressure
- 09:03 — Ethos, pathos, logos repackaged
- 10:03 — Facts, emotions, values and identities
- 10:39 — Defining a pressure situation: three factors at once
- 11:31 — Problem solving does not work on emotions and values
- 11:56 — Facts get solved, emotions get met, values need dialogue
- 12:19 — Widen first, reach for the solution only after
- 13:18 — Package deals and pain at the identity level
- 14:12 — Book raffle among the commenters
- 15:18 — From Kohlrieser's course into hostage psychology
- 16:59 — Mallender, Schranner, Gaunt and Voss
- 17:16 — The idea as the hostage in a negotiation
- 17:33 — Alpha, beta, gamma — dividing roles in the team
- 17:57 — The classic mistake: the principal negotiates too much
- 18:21 — A scribe records every single question
- 18:43 — Tactical and strategic empathy
- 19:37 — Directness and empathy present at the same time
- 20:30 — Conversational courage and the talks never had
- 21:05 — The phone takes the horizon of attention
- 21:58 — Agree at the start how the conversation will be held
- 22:27 — The power of an agenda and the emptiness of Teams invitations
- 23:27 — Put the agenda item in the form of a question
- 24:17 — The amygdala flare and the defences
- 25:07 — Regulating your own state under pressure
- 26:02 — Measuring pressure behaviour with sensors
- 26:23 — Wholes or details when the pressure rises
- 27:15 — Senses open: stress shows in the breathing
- 28:14 — Emotions spread like a virus
- 29:02 — A receptive state and scanning the emotional field
- 29:30 — Tone turning defensive — take a step back
- 30:09 — Improv courses and the lesson of synchronising
- 31:15 — Staged breakdowns and theatricality
- 31:49 — A preparation question: what do I do when I don't know
- 32:35 — Exposure to pressure and releasing it in a controlled way
- 33:35 — Tolerating friction and bonding in spite of it
- 33:59 — Going to the same side is widely misunderstood
- 34:09 — Kohlrieser's three principles and the 95 percent
- 34:26 — Four times in the grip of a hijacker
- 35:25 — Creating emotional bonds as a gap in leadership
- 35:31 — Bison run towards the sandstorm
- 36:41 — Emotions are that sandstorm
- 37:26 — Authenticity is found through discomfort
- 37:53 — The illusion of competence and Dunning–Kruger
- 38:23 — Flow, eustress and the edge of distress
- 39:01 — Everyone fails sometimes
- 39:33 — Audio levels, lighting and continuous improvement
- 40:58 — A detective of the human mind
- 41:53 — Lectures with live music
- 44:17 — Say your piece in four sentences
- 44:54 — Lead the dialogue — the turn in taking turns
- 45:41 — Crisis centre duty as the most demanding practice
- 46:24 — Rubanovitsch's dialogue plan in sales
- 46:54 — Synchronising the breath and the Alexander technique
- 47:56 — Pacing and the secret of the best therapists
- 48:31 — Techniques versus genuine presence
- 49:00 — Separate observation from interpretation
- 50:27 — Ask what happened, not why
- 50:53 — The observer's role as a future episode topic
- 51:35 — The continuum of pressure from conversation to crisis
- 52:14 — Guest requests, the book raffle and closing
Summary
Helena Åhman explains how the methods of hostage negotiators transfer to the executive team and to difficult conversations at work. The conversation covers the difference between George Kohlrieser’s and Chris Voss’s schools and what they share — situational awareness — probing values and identity before reaching for solutions, the alpha–beta–gamma roles inside a negotiating team and the amateur mistake of not using them, regulating your own state under pressure through breathing, and building an emotional bond in spite of friction.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Cold open: five hostage negotiators met in person
- 01:54 — Introducing Helena Åhman
- 02:17 — Books, crime novels and dark photographs
- 02:34 — The Nokia background and developing executive teams
- 03:30 — Pressure situations as a research subject
- 03:50 — Two shifts: Harvard’s BATNA and the no culture
- 05:00 — A situationally aware toolkit instead of one model
- 06:03 — Books are always simplifications
- 06:29 — Criticising Voss: anchoring versus waiting for the offer
- 08:15 — Party to the conflict or mediator under pressure
- 09:03 — Ethos, pathos, logos repackaged
- 10:03 — Facts, emotions, values and identities
- 10:39 — Defining a pressure situation: three factors at once
- 11:31 — Problem solving does not work on emotions and values
- 11:56 — Facts get solved, emotions get met, values need dialogue
- 12:19 — Widen first, reach for the solution only after
- 13:18 — Package deals and pain at the identity level
- 14:12 — Book raffle among the commenters
- 15:18 — From Kohlrieser’s course into hostage psychology
- 16:59 — Mallender, Schranner, Gaunt and Voss
- 17:16 — The idea as the hostage in a negotiation
- 17:33 — Alpha, beta, gamma — dividing roles in the team
- 17:57 — The classic mistake: the principal negotiates too much
- 18:21 — A scribe records every single question
- 18:43 — Tactical and strategic empathy
- 19:37 — Directness and empathy present at the same time
- 20:30 — Conversational courage and the talks never had
- 21:05 — The phone takes the horizon of attention
- 21:58 — Agree at the start how the conversation will be held
- 22:27 — The power of an agenda and the emptiness of Teams invitations
- 23:27 — Put the agenda item in the form of a question
- 24:17 — The amygdala flare and the defences
- 25:07 — Regulating your own state under pressure
- 26:02 — Measuring pressure behaviour with sensors
- 26:23 — Wholes or details when the pressure rises
- 27:15 — Senses open: stress shows in the breathing
- 28:14 — Emotions spread like a virus
- 29:02 — A receptive state and scanning the emotional field
- 29:30 — Tone turning defensive — take a step back
- 30:09 — Improv courses and the lesson of synchronising
- 31:15 — Staged breakdowns and theatricality
- 31:49 — A preparation question: what do I do when I don’t know
- 32:35 — Exposure to pressure and releasing it in a controlled way
- 33:35 — Tolerating friction and bonding in spite of it
- 33:59 — Going to the same side is widely misunderstood
- 34:09 — Kohlrieser’s three principles and the 95 percent
- 34:26 — Four times in the grip of a hijacker
- 35:25 — Creating emotional bonds as a gap in leadership
- 35:31 — Bison run towards the sandstorm
- 36:41 — Emotions are that sandstorm
- 37:26 — Authenticity is found through discomfort
- 37:53 — The illusion of competence and Dunning–Kruger
- 38:23 — Flow, eustress and the edge of distress
- 39:01 — Everyone fails sometimes
- 39:33 — Audio levels, lighting and continuous improvement
- 40:58 — A detective of the human mind
- 41:53 — Lectures with live music
- 44:17 — Say your piece in four sentences
- 44:54 — Lead the dialogue — the turn in taking turns
- 45:41 — Crisis centre duty as the most demanding practice
- 46:24 — Rubanovitsch’s dialogue plan in sales
- 46:54 — Synchronising the breath and the Alexander technique
- 47:56 — Pacing and the secret of the best therapists
- 48:31 — Techniques versus genuine presence
- 49:00 — Separate observation from interpretation
- 50:27 — Ask what happened, not why
- 50:53 — The observer’s role as a future episode topic
- 51:35 — The continuum of pressure from conversation to crisis
- 52:14 — Guest requests, the book raffle and closing
Watch
The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: Panttivankineuvottelut | Helena Åhman | Neuvottelija 34. A Finnish edition of this episode is published at www.neuvottelija.fi.
People and topics
Guests: Helena Åhman
Topics: Negotiation