Episode 105 · 2021-10-31 · 31:37 · Original in Finnish
Careers in Finance, #Momentum | Henrik Liimatainen and Mikko Hiltunen | Negotiator 105
Originally published as “Momentum rahoituksen urat | Henrik Liimatainen Mikko Hiltunen | Neuvottelija 105”
Henrik Liimatainen and Mikko Hiltunen, final-stage finance students at Aalto who make the Momentum podcast, reverse the roles: they had just interviewed the host for their own series, and here they reflect on the four careers they have covered — the rapper Spekti, professor Elias Rantapuska, Inderes founder Mikael Rautanen, and Sami Miettinen. The most interesting observation concerns their own cohort: finance students are above-average risk avoiders because good salaried work is available, so entrepreneurship interests them more than it materialises, and a failed firm straight after graduation looks like a credibility risk. The host answers that tactical CV-building is the safe bet but failure is judged less harshly than in his day. He also argues that without Inderes Finland would have an eastern European stock exchange, and admits it took him decades to learn to respect the efficiency of the US market. The episode covers investing the student loan in an index base, crypto and control of the keys, why a thesis and a first job set a career vector, and the sale of the KY building and the move to Otaniemi.
Core theses
- Finance students avoid risk above average precisely because the safe option is good, which is a selection effect rather than a character trait.
- Interest in entrepreneurship and entry into it diverge sharply in this cohort, and the gap is explained by the opportunity cost and by fear for one's credibility after a failure rather than by nerve.
- The thesis subject and the first job set a vector that is far harder to change later than anyone expects at the time.
- A host who spent decades learning to respect US market efficiency, and credits Inderes with keeping Finland's small-cap market alive, offers the students index investing rather than stock picking as the default.
Watch and listen
Key moments
- 00:00 — Episode preview
- 01:05 — Henrik and Mikko introduce themselves and the Momentum podcast
- 01:50 — Spekti swapped a banking career at Nordea for Finnish rap
- 04:55 — Professor Elias Rantapuska and the love of learning
- 07:50 — Keloharju, Kaustia and the alternative career of a researcher
- 09:20 — Inderes's Mikael Rautanen and analysis as a passion
- 10:55 — Why Inderes matters to the Finnish stock exchange
- 12:20 — Sami's episode and the investment banker's classic path
- 14:25 — Consulting and BCG as a career for a finance student
- 15:00 — Finnish Long Drink conquers the United States
- 15:30 — Start-ups, or investment banking and consulting
- 16:40 — Finance students are risk avoiders
- 17:00 — The student loan into the market and an index-based portfolio
- 17:45 — The equity savings account and individual stocks
- 18:15 — Why US stocks belong in the portfolio
- 19:00 — Bitcoin, blockchains and the Wild West of crypto
- 21:40 — The thesis and the first job set the direction
- 22:50 — Your own company straight away, or via a big logo
- 24:10 — Sport, books and sailing in Croatia
- 26:00 — Aalto Finance, AFA and AFA Quarterly
- 27:15 — The business students' union representative council
- 27:50 — The KY building was sold: towards the Otaniemi campus
- 28:55 — Hanken and the business school keep up their ribbing tradition
- 29:30 — What Momentum has taught about career choices
- 30:30 — Thesis topics in Neuvottelija's Facebook community
- 31:15 — Thanks and close
Summary
Henrik Liimatainen and Mikko Hiltunen, final-stage finance students at Aalto who make the Momentum podcast, reverse the roles: they had just interviewed the host for their own series, and here they reflect on the four careers they have covered — the rapper Spekti, professor Elias Rantapuska, Inderes founder Mikael Rautanen, and Sami Miettinen. The most interesting observation concerns their own cohort: finance students are above-average risk avoiders because good salaried work is available, so entrepreneurship interests them more than it materialises, and a failed firm straight after graduation looks like a credibility risk. The host answers that tactical CV-building is the safe bet but failure is judged less harshly than in his day. He also argues that without Inderes Finland would have an eastern European stock exchange, and admits it took him decades to learn to respect the efficiency of the US market. The episode covers investing the student loan in an index base, crypto and control of the keys, why a thesis and a first job set a career vector, and the sale of the KY building and the move to Otaniemi.
Why the safe option wins
The cohort’s risk aversion is not temperament. A finance graduate has a well-paid salaried job waiting, which makes the expected cost of trying something else unusually high, and one of the guests adds a sharper worry he has raised with his mentor: a firm that fails straight after graduation may cost credibility that a big logo on the CV would have bought. The host concedes the logic, recalls being an extreme risk avoider himself in the shadow of the 1990s recession, and argues that failure now carries less stigma.
The vector set early
A thesis subject and a first employer narrow the range of plausible next steps far more than either feels like it should at the time. The host, who says he has handed out some thirty thesis topics and steered many students into consulting and banking, puts it bluntly: they set the vector.
Markets, humbly
The investing passage is the host’s admission that it took him decades to respect the efficiency of the US stock market, and his advice to keep it at a neutral weight rather than follow the perennial calls to sell. The guests have put their student loans into cost-efficient index funds before picking individual shares. On crypto the three agree it is a wild west, with theft and control of the keys as the practical risks.
Roles reversed
The episode is worth reading as a conversation between interviewers about interviewing, conducted days after they had put the same questions to the person now asking them.
Watch
The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: Rahoituksen urat #Momentum | Liimatainen Hiltunen | Neuvottelija 105. A Finnish edition of this episode is published at www.neuvottelija.fi.
In depth
The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode: English · suomeksi.
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People and topics
Guests: Henrik Liimatainen, Mikko Hiltunen