--- title: "23 Minutes | Arto Koskelo | Negotiator 115" titleOriginal: "23 Minuuttia | Arto Koskelo | Neuvottelija 115" episodeNumber: "115" guest: "Arto Koskelo" datePublished: 2022-01-02 duration: "23:29" youtube: "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M" originalLanguage: "fi" topics: ["free_speech_society","leadership_governance"] subtitleMethod: "none" provenance: "Owner page assembled from YouTube metadata, the neuvottelija.fi episode record and a MacWhisper transcription of the Finnish audio, upgraded on 18 October 2026. The chapter marks are the publisher's own, translated one for one, and every mark was verified against the start of a transcript cue. No transcript is published here: the channel has no English caption track for this episode. The guest runs a Finnish channel that competes with and overlaps this one; the subscriber figures and plans are his own and are those of January 2022, and the editorial purpose he states is his." fiCanonical: "https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/144-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo-neuvottelija-115" canonical: https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep115-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo/ --- # 23 Minutes | Arto Koskelo | Negotiator 115 English subtitles are not available on this page. This is an episode summary, not a curated transcript. ## Chapters - [00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=0s) Guest Arto Koskelo and the 23-minute clock - [01:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=93s) Channel growth curves and the Malinen effect - [02:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=166s) Talking alone does not work, a two-person format does - [04:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=286s) Where the weekly topics come from - [06:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=400s) Concern about one-sidedness in the debate - [08:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=486s) Watches: Jaeger-LeCoultre and the aesthetics of mechanics - [10:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=628s) Rolex and Lange & Söhne - [11:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=717s) Where the name 23 Minutes came from - [13:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=823s) Who gets the power to define - [14:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=899s) YouTube's algorithm and commenters with no history - [16:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=989s) What happens to links in the comment field - [17:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=1067s) Commercialising the channel - [19:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=1140s) Long-running partnerships instead of individual posts - [20:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=1254s) Ten years in the wine trade, and leaving it - [22:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=1326s) Wine still privately, and a possible themed episode - [23:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M&t=1386s) The hill of Hermitage and Jack Daniel's with coke ## Summary Arto Koskelo spent ten years in the wine trade and became Iltalehti's wine writer; later he left radio and decided never to make media again — and once the pandemic began he founded the 23 Minuuttia channel with Jussi Heikelä in May 2020. By the time of recording it had passed twenty thousand subscribers. The episode takes the format's logic apart: five episodes a week is, in Koskelo's words, a drug dealer's tactic that makes the programme part of a listener's morning routine, with Patreon specials filling the empty Saturday, and the name is a deliberately annoying odd number that roughly matches a commute. The host calls their work clearing the Overton window and admits his own approach is more cautious — he does not say difficult things himself but asks them of his guests. ## Daily is a distribution decision Publishing five times a week is not about having more to say. It is about occupying a recurring slot in someone's morning, which a weekly programme cannot do however good it is. Koskelo is candid that this creates a deliberate dependency, and that the Saturday gap is what the Patreon specials are for. ## A runtime that fits a journey Twenty-three minutes is odd enough to prompt the question of why, and long enough to fill a commute without starting to feel like effort. Setting the length from the listening situation rather than from the material is the sort of decision most programmes never make explicitly. ## Two ways to ask the hard question The most candid exchange is about method. Koskelo's stated motive is liberal: to counter a debate he finds one-sided and to keep the power to define in his own hands. The host's practice is to put the difficult question to a guest and let them answer it; he calls himself still a bit of a coward. Both are editorial positions and the episode does not pretend they are the same one. ## Watch The recording lives on the Neuvottelija channel: [23 Minuuttia | Arto Koskelo | Neuvottelija 115](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybt1ACgYV5M). A Finnish edition of this episode is published at [www.neuvottelija.fi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/fi/episodes/144-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo-neuvottelija-115). ## In depth The Neuvottelija AI editions carry a long-form write-up of this episode: [English](https://www.neuvottelija.com/ai/ep115-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo/) · [suomeksi](https://www.neuvottelija.fi/tools/ep115-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo/). --- Cite as: Sami Miettinen, Neuvottelija — 23 Minutes | Arto Koskelo | Negotiator 115, https://www.neuvottelija.com/podcast/episodes/ep115-23-minuuttia-arto-koskelo/, 2022-01-02. For quotes include episode 115 and timestamp.