All right, welcome for the second time, Peter Fredman!
Thank you very much and thank you for the invitation. It hasn't been long since we last saw each other. So, we drove over to Lappi in Rauma.
we gathered for a board meeting, because Fredman Group, a significant company of about 30 million turnover fast-moving consumer goods company, on whose board I sit, and of which you are our owner, we, together with the main owner Korona Invest, had decided on this factory modernization, and the robots were moving well there.
Indeed, it was definitely great to see when everything is working and the big investment starts, in that sense, or gets underway, and time will tell how well those calculations held up, but Well, it is indeed the direction we are heading in all the time, that we automate and streamline as much as possible, and there are already good
ways to do that, but of course people are still the most important resource there, but when combined with this kind of automation and robotics and other things, then things are certainly moving forward.
Yes, and as background for this, in the previous episode, where we talked a bit about these development challenges in Finland and sort of what kind of organizational landscape there is to promote the voice of active ownership, things progressed in such a way that you invited me to the family company's board, and now, a couple of years later, we're in this same thing together. ownership has changed and and well
the company itself has certainly changed too. It’s kind of great to look at things from there sort of from next to the owner's shelf, there on the board, that a lot has definitely been done there. Yes, and I personally have growth entrepreneurship as my own passion, of course, and and growth companies. Mm. and I've focused more on those today and and of course we want Fredman Group to also be
a growth company, and a growth strategy is underway there. Yes, and there have been structural changes, ownership changes, and then in a way exports are always really great, I think, when a Finnish company is able to sell for example, expanding into the German market, and the products have changed, and then on the branding side, it's been quite ingenious, using your great name in a way, as the top brand there, I think that too was quite great in a way, and I even went so far as to suggest to the board that we copy this
Tokmanni strategy, where Mr. Fredman negotiates with the Germans, but you haven't warmed up to it yet. No, no, we haven't warmed up to it yet, but the idea was brilliant. Yes, but I think the brand strategy is working very well, and maybe the topic of this episode could be that now that you made it into the tax calendar as part of this partial ownership transformation, so where have you then allocated capital released from this Fredman Group, then perhaps one
answer is that you have, one could say, formed a family office from that released share capital. That has indeed been the plan, that when the day finally comes, then we will definitely start systematically building what follows, and of course still in Fredman Group as a significant minority shareholder of course, but but
active on the board and in owner strategy. But then in addition, there is this Fredman Capital, which now centralizes direct holdings, especially in unlisted companies, and then the next generation is being involved all the time.
Yeah, I have a holding company too. I named it DCM Capital instead of Miettinen Capital. In a way, I sometimes joke that if my family branch were referred to as 'the rich Miettinens' instead of Ensto, then things would be fine, but I don't think that's going to happen now, so greetings to Marjo Miettinen and associates, or then win this game. I'm giving up already, but it is good to have tools for ownership in a way, and
a limited company like that, whether small or large, is convenient. I mean, in the form of a holding company, it's just practical to make investments and then ownership. I've certainly learned here that it is never a given, because somehow I think that even still it feels like in Finland people think it's just coupon clipping and, well, sitting on a stock portfolio, when in reality it's very much a hands-on
approach. So there you get to, and you have this business-to- consumer fetish, especially since many in Finland want to invest in companies that serve other companies, meaning this is like a B2B or business-to-business strategy; yet you have this admirable, admirable, perhaps even idealistic, drive to invest in Finnish consumer-facing concepts; so yeah, it—it is of course maybe an exception
in that sense—a respectful exception. Yes, but regarding that, others have sometimes asked about this too—so, of course, a long history of experience From the FMCG type, Fast Moving Consumer Goods, very fast- moving consumer products, those types of things, so like brand and distribution channels, of course grocery and retail and
in Finland and globally, but well, so experience is one thing, but it's perhaps also that nice challenge in it, that that building new brands is like extremely difficult, really, and getting onto the grocery trade shelves even in Finland, it's a really long journey, because you practically have to be number one or two these days, so so it's not an easy story, but well, challenges are nice and and
but as for what else is in there, well on the other hand I've always thought that, yeah B2B is perhaps more common, but indeed, all roads lead eventually to the consumer, so even if it were, say, the army or defense forces, they too serve the individual and the individuals of society, you just don't think about it that way. Yeah. But let's take a few
investments then, though perhaps as a word of warning, ownership is mainly the majority owner's job, but being on the so-called cap tables, i.e., active in several projects, let's now boldly talk about them, but with the warning that others too owners may have, like, different views on this. This isn't any official view of these companies' strategies, but let's take for example, uh, Fiksu Ruoka, where it also applies that it sort of
started, wouldn't you say, with this kind of or well, explain it yourself, the transf— yeah, it's a great, great company, a startup that has already reached, like, a young, not yet adult but maybe teenage years already, and well, but great, great founders and a strong, strong ethos behind it, reducing, like, food waste and other waste
as much as possible. So, these kinds of best- before dates approaching, or other packaging, old packaging, which otherwise it works perfectly; what cannot be sold through normal channels, is then sold online, and there, practically speaking, many wonder if there's any waste left, but there is no waste because it has dynamic pricing, meaning
a product might go for just one cent. That certainly interests consumers, because you can reduce waste and buy cheaply, so that equation is a pretty good business idea. And you could call this a kind of wholesale clearance sale, so in practice, yes, and it's also very much about logistics, and there are plenty of batches available, so it just doesn't end. And another new thing they've done there is
they are really facing a major challenge. So, the first brick-and-mortar store has been opened in Espoo, and there’s work to be done there, but the start has been really, really great. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, even at Fredman, we have one in Rauma, there is a factory shop, so it’s always possible to introduce the physical channel, and in a way, it’s not always as big a deal as people think. And in my opinion, with this pure e-commerce model, well yes, this kind of outlet-type thing often works, as long as it doesn't go overboard. Of course, you can go overboard here, meaning we start to
challenging this highly concentrated Finnish retail channel, so many have certainly taken a beating along the way there, but yes, yes, but what's different here is that an online retail-type business idea has then been taken abroad, to Holland, Belgium, and there are still relatively
few of them over 10 to 20 years, and that too is a great achievement, but yeah, this kind of omni-channel or 'both is better', so let's see where it leads now. It looks good. Yes, but I think it's absolutely excellent.
You never know with these, I'm personally hopeless at these private investments, so don't invite me to any of them, because well, it can even correlate negatively with the metric, that I like slightly larger investment targets then, so that it is otherwise damn hard to sense this early-stage curve sense it, which is also respectable no matter where it is, and then the decks are so beautiful for everyone, so you have to be
careful not to throw money away on things. But then let's take another one, so you have this Well, I was in Norway and we stopped at Levi, and then I remembered, aha you had that Levi Black, and then I saw and called you to see if there was room and said welcome. But this time a bit more humbly we stayed there, but anyway, so one is this kind of like a Levi
infatuation. Yeah, well, I've been going there for like 25 years, so the place is familiar, but it has changed quite a bit since those early days. You could tell that one story about our Formula driver here, or let's do it this way, let's put into the inner circle about one of Finland's most successful Formula World Champions. There aren't many of these, so exciting things happen at the property.
So this is a teaser for the inner circle discussion about this. Yeah, so hospitality in general is perhaps what fascinates me too, like the accommodation business and the restaurant side business as a whole and, well, and of course Lapland has been familiar and dear from 25 years ago, so through that, but that was just, they are random coincidences, and then this kind of opportunity came to get
involved, so it's practically real estate business but we partly operate it and, and of course we are also there in Lapland now with another company, and Lapland is hot right now. Yes, and even this Levi area, which everyone feels isn't quite the real Lapland, well then, but but I think it's really great that Finland has this kind of thing when comparing to Eastern Finland, which unfortunately, due to this Russian activity,
has taken quite a hit, so that Lapland region, well yes there is actually an admirable amount of activity there.
It is, and great things were done there back in the day. So infrastructure is playing a major role, since we know what kind of an island we live on, and Lapland is even further away from the main routes, so air traffic is really important, and back then of course Kittilä airport, which was established on the Finnish side, enabled both Kittilä and the Ylläs area, and of course Rovaniemi as a major hub, the growth that
we are seeing now. Yes. And when we went there, uh, to Norway, we went through Haparanda back to Finland just for fun.
In a way, the Swedish border is quite significant there too. Okay. The Swedes are already went through its restructuring a bit earlier than we did there. Now there isn't so much population, but you can get over that. And in my opinion, that infrastructure project, well, when we were discussing this Vantaa light rail with Petri Roininen and Joukeläinen, well then there was this Turku One Hour Train, so there then,
it was pointed out that, excuse me, this was like, I was talking with Matti Virtanen and about these rail projects, the one hour train and then this later this Vantaa light rail, and it was said there that definitely the rail connection should be built to the Norwegian side and maybe
at those Western latitudes and getting that infrastructure set up, so that would also support this regional growth. Absolutely, yes.
And now we also got that Surjanite line 2 machine. So in a way, the electricity supply there has also improved. It's like you could place industrial production there a bit better; it really is a strong area. Well, but this is very good, this advertising activity, then maybe from the same angle, this Bon Group—so what does it do? Well, it's an interesting, yes, a growth company, and growth is what's wanted for this country now, in different
different industries, and this is perhaps a great example now, that it was founded from scratch three years ago where the idea is that, well, licensed restaurants, and dining restaurants are purchased [Music] under an umbrella brand, but they operate as their own independent brands, meaning they are already quite mature companies that generate cash flow,
and last year, for example, 12 new restaurants were added, so the management and board were certainly busy buying and bringing these into this entity, but the idea is to gain those economies of scale
from procurement and from optimizing the staff, like where people are located when there are many places where you can, meaning university cities and then, well, the five largest resorts, which now are practically to a large extent winter resorts and such, though of course summer resorts can be found too and, well, growing through that, but not
in the capital region with this, like at least for now, and and of course a big, big change now to this strategy was then that this, this Vaneninnan group merged, merged now, joined this entity, which then brought in that accommodation business and operations, but that of course is then like its own, and then there's this food and beverage side as its own. Yeah, it is, in a way I was also at this Mikko Alasaari's 50th over there at Aulanko, so, so in a way I think
like in a way these strong classic non-metropolitan regions of Finland I think it's great that they're waking up a bit, as Eastern Finland is like a bit in a slump, so Punkaharju and others are suffering, but in a way, it's great that they're waking up. It is, and of course one hopes for activity and awakening in Helsinki, but if we look at a one-hour radius from Helsinki, there are
like incredible places to be found there, from Illee to Porvoo and of course the Hämeenlinna areas and maybe Turku is included in that too, and well, but if you look at the rest of the world, a one-hour trip to, say, a restaurant, it's not really not a problem, but we always make it a problem ourselves. Yeah, that's how it is.
in a way that, of course, the flight routes are partially inconvenient, that Europe Europe can provide a good flow of passengers, of course, but for Asia, you have to go around a bit awkwardly around Russia via the Arctic Ocean, so in a way it was like a very strong link; Asian tourists do still come from there, though, it's not completely dead, as they are willing to put in those few extra hours of effort, absolutely, and then the exoticism and
what they see in the Nordic countries and especially in Lapland, but equally, the Finnish Lakeland is a destination of the future in that sense, and of course we are trying to do everything then, this this accommodation and and then well the food side and the entire restaurant operation would then match that level of demand that is being sought and and we don't need to be ashamed at all, because we are indeed like we have authentic pure ingredients and
and clean nature and and well and facilities, even the infrastructure is starting to be world-class. So so well we are in a good position in that sense, that then as long as we are reached and and we get those like communication channels open, what we now see in Lapland, that it just takes its own time and I believe that the same will happen also in Lakeland in these these well coming years. Yeah. that culinary aspect and well in a way
I mean about that by the way when we were with that Fremman Group we raised it Jeffstein, so in a way, that too was quite a respectable growth story, in a way, to market leader in a few years here in, like, restaurant technology and its information systems. By the way, when I ran into someone in the Helsinki nightlife, I was spending money during Slush week on this, like, luxury life or, like, a lavish lifestyle, so I was buying
a lavish drink, and then CG's Aromi team showed up and I asked, 'well, how's it going?', and they said that it works in this, like, Aromi logistics and recipes and diagnostics and self-monitoring system really well, actually, so in a way it too found, like, a proper home. It's a bit of a shame that we aren't that anymore, like as an owner looking on, but this is what was found within CGI
clearly a lot of added value. So this is also interesting, that you then went to the kitchen side, that you are of course a good companion and a participant in restaurant dinners, but you've always been interested in that sort of like the restaurant's internal operations.
Absolutely. Yes. And, well, and maybe one thing there that, like, the great thing about Fredman Group has been that we don't just sell products, even though we're talking about FMCG-type things like cling film, but if it doesn't if it doesn't, like, serve the food maker, the chef there in the best possible way, then we are sort of lost. So it has been like a driving force still, and then in order to be able to do that, you really have to understand
what in the customers' processes and food preparation actually happens, and of course through that I am also quite interested in food preparation, but especially in different technical gadgets with which it is then done, and it has developed quite a bit even though it's one of the oldest industries and still fairly, fairly conservative, so technology-assisted things are definitely coming there, so it is quite
clear. But then sometimes the Carita cloth is quite a legend there in the kitchen, and I don't know, it fits the home table too, but I mean this restaurant Otherwise, there's all sorts of really competent people there, and in a way, this top-tier cuisine and a bit of enjoyment. I mean, I would hope for that a bit now, because we're in a bit of a mental slump,
as people are pinching pennies—and there's nothing wrong with ordering food delivery, but like, go to an old-school restaurant for a bit, look each other in the eye, tell bad jokes, and build relationships; it's a truly important part of being human, absolutely. A lot has happened since the pandemic— of course, the pandemic itself and the restaurant closures, so it
was a real crisis for the industry, but it's like Food consumption and the way things work have certainly changed here.
In general, and that’s how it goes—one has to adapt to it, but those social and similar aspects are certainly suffering right now, so that instead of being with friends or at business lunches, physically present with good food and having good, meaningful conversations related to whatever is being done, versus being
on Teams in our own little office and eating perhaps only when it is deemed necessary, and not meeting people—I won’t go into too many directions, but if we look at Sweden, for instance, and Stockholm, the situation there is completely different than In Helsinki, and like, it means that all the restaurants there are full.
There's life in the city centers, and well, we did have a...
good direction before the pandemic, and I think we had even surpassed...
Stockholm and Denmark, or at least were on the same level, and now we're...
a bit behind again. Yeah, well, foreigners use it that way, but...
I also wonder a bit where the local crowd is, and...
then really the networking—I don't know, I've now...
started hearing this frustratingly often also in...
board meetings; having done this vibe-coding quite...
thoroughly, I've started doing it so that I sit with others at the same...
at the table and we get the laptops out. Even there, we should brew up some kind of thing where we drink Red Bull and eat pizza, well, and code. I mean, this kind of concept could be quite cool, because, like, now I'm struggling with how job-creating companies aren't being born, so it still requires that smart types who are in a way somehow developing a passionate idea meeting each other, which definitely doesn't happen on social media or even Teams, so it would require these kinds of 'collisions', so partly that
Sweden's success is about that capital, but they certainly have, well, all the time those smart and partly rich, who are sometimes the same thing, so they bump into each other and pitch concepts and, well, spin them and acquire things for them funding and scaling and, well, creating new ones, so this is like really vital, absolutely, and maybe one such
tip for young people especially, is that networking and especially during student years, but of course afterwards too, they are extremely important, where the Swedes are better than us, or at least they do it more, and it has so many positive effects. Whether it's job searching, new clients, new business ideas, anything really, new acquaintances, it
enriches life a lot. But we are quite a bit like engineer types, of course, so this time if I go over there, so is it like profitable and sensible and value-producing and its you just go there and the right circles will be found over time. But then Morten Mikkonen was interviewed there, he had, I think, a good book, this 'Growth Formula', and then he was really like at times
a classic Finland-Swede, like, where has this 'Strömsö' of ours, well, locality disappeared from here in Finland, but then he like in that book, he focused on that Silicon Valley clock speed, that in a way, okay, people are very hardworking and efficient and individualistic, but then when they meet, so much interaction happens there and it's like a bit too coldly fast, so in a way, you weren't it's beneficial for me after 30 seconds, but this is how it happens,
it happens, it happens, but anyway, that kind of, like, collision happens, and then you find those groups of smart people, so that like businesses find each other, or then a project that has gone slightly off-track is pivoted to the right angle and saved, or some important partnership is formed. Like, it's just damn important, it is, and I completely agree with that, that the clock speed, as you said, it really does matter a lot, so that we get things
done, and we all have reason to look in the mirror here in Finland, because our clock speed is somehow maybe running a bit slow right now.
slowly and looking for, like, where this is coming from and who's to blame and so on, but but one's own actions might not be analyzed that critically then, or let alone changing those actions. Yes. And and of course that has an impact as well and so on, but this brings us now to the owners' responsibility and actions, that it is indeed the owners' responsibility to then choose the competencies, of course, that are needed for, say, a growth company,
for the board and through that for the operational team and to ensure that things then happen and are delivered there.
And here we have certainly been across the board—whether it's a large company or a small company—facing a challenge. But then then again, startup-type communities—and I have experience with them even now— well, the clock speed is completely different there. Someone might say that it goes overboard, but if we take Wolt, which was mentioned just now—I just had the pleasure of hearing Marianne Vikkula
at that Boardman event, it's just about doing it and then fixing things a bit and going again, and a huge drive, to the point that even watching her presentation almost made me break a sweat, and this is what we need. Yes, exactly. I also went to Slush and it was the best Slush ever, by the way. I was invited to different stands, so at the Control.dev stand, where there was a former Translink employee
at work, so they invited me there, and then Marianne Vikkula came to hug them there, and then I said that, well, I coded this own section for the Slush stage side, and then she encouraged me too, saying 'good, good Sami, good Sami,' this kind of Slush spirit, so in a way she is the former CEO of Slush, and then like Miki Kuusi too, like a double genius, but it's great that we have those kinds of really driven people who are also really nice,
and she went to every little startup's booth there to chat nicely, kind of in her role as the former Slush CEO, so she wasn't at all some kind of stiff über-leader, that although it's surely, like, really, really tough there in the work community.
Yes. Exactly. Yeah, but more of these types are indeed coming in all the time and are needed, but then you also have to remember that not everyone becomes a Wolt or grows that fast, so you need that perseverance and and real grit. Yeah, and then sort of 'camel investing'; I myself am in this Gorilla Capital fund, which isn't meant to create these Lifeline-style Wolts or Ouras, which
super-scale, and because sort of the problem with this kind of venture capital model is that then only those few real gems get everything put into them, and then the others have to fend for themselves, since then again, for many, it could become something that has grown threefold, which would be quite good, but then it requires a slightly different investor base and perhaps a slightly longer vision, yes, if the first
pivot was a direct success with Miki Kuusi and Vikkula.
But then, regarding internationalization, you have a stake in Strand Properties, and there is perhaps a back story where my colleagues at Translink Corporate Finance, where I am a partner, assisted Bo LKV in finding Saari Partners as an investor, and then from there...
this part of the group left and then they went to Spain to escape COVID, and there they founded Strand and, in a way, like in a foreign land, the Finns managed to make the traditional real estate business, like, take off. Isn't this the growth story where it all started?
Yes. Yeah, exactly, and well, in itself, of course, through real estate I've become familiar with that area, but as for other contact in that sense, other than having used the services back in the day, but what's fascinating here is specifically this international perspective, that they've had a great, great start there, and it's very competitive that Costa del Sol in Spain, for example, so
so, well, they are still able to do it, so of course the team plays a big role still and in the future as well, and so on, but there is also this kind of like technological perspective, that I consider this kind of maybe disruption, but at least changes in this kind of conservative, fairly stagnant industry, and especially if it's still at the consumer interface, then
well, it had those elements and a good vibe, but otherwise there too, so it's nice to see, and now of course also to Finland they expanded to Finland now and, well, the intention is to expand further to other countries, and I think in both of these Both Strand and Bo have fascinating aspects that stimulate the Finnish existing luxury real estate market segment, which can now be found in Northern Finland as well, so
it's really great that there are such leisure properties and others that can compete with the Costa del Sol. There aren't too many of them, but nevertheless, it also supports raising Finland's profile. That works too. Yes. And they don't just sell to Finns on the Costa del Sol, but rather to international investors and holiday residents. And by the way, we had the honor of being with Mikko Nurminen
well, at the table there during FiBAN's 15th anniversary gala when he won the award. By the way, Framery's Kim Väisänen was also at that same table, so congratulations on the IPO, so in a way, something like Hostaway, kind of in the luxury rental market too, it's a Finnish innovation and a very large and well-grown company, and these are both excellent
examples of whether it's about ownership or rental, but that this kind of application or platform is created, through which people from all around the world can find it, because that has been our problem, like how, how on earth do they find Finland, but Through these, of course, the whole world is open, so then we compete with everyone, but but it's like I feel that we were talking about the cottages of Lake Finland and real luxury nature,
so these are the types of services that help with that too, so there are many good things there, yes, and I joke that if climate change continues, which is of course unfortunate, we might have it so that at least in the summer, Finland is like a little Mediterranean, with really nice archipelago and just really fun, so like it's somehow a bit pointless to downplay it, as we have the most islands
here, like the archipelago and crayfish parties and others from here—whenever I visit Sweden, I tease them that we've made progress and that you guys should come here on holiday, that things have changed, and that even here in Stockholm, there isn't anything like Löyly, it's just 'Bara Bada Bastu', so somehow we should boost Nordic tourism; it could very well be part of Finland's profile.
Absolutely. If we look at summer in Norway, it’s a huge success and there are already almost too many people; of course, the nature there is a bit different, but our fells and lakes and archipelago are such incredible places. I believe that The Mediterranean is moving to the Baltic Sea. The Baltic Sea is becoming the new Mediterranean right here. Yeah. And our summer, we have like, pleasant, so it's like quite, quite optimal now, and then it's too hot
over there, and the water is running out on the Continent, and they're already a bit congested and overdeveloped. But maybe then this seasonal variation, because then we have, uh, some of that under-capacity. Winter is overbooked, and then, well, maybe in the south, the summer is fine, but then maybe the mosquitoes pester you in Lapland, so we should get into this seasonality like a bit of balance. This is exactly right, and of course, who
would want to be in Finland in November? That's one question, so Welcome to Finland you Badass! Yeah, and we should bring more of these types of things.
Like, Slush is a great example of how, well, how we can actually get people here through the content.
And by the way, I was at Google DeepMind's table; it was there, there were the top researchers from Google's entire AI team and these top investors, and then we went to eat a six-course luxury Finnish meal, and they even had wine—it was berry wines, and they— the Brits around me were gagging a bit, but they were
in a really good mood, saying 'this is pretty good' and honestly, these things can be branded, and then one, well...
this fairly wealthy guy then headed to Northern Finland after that Slush week like seriously, and then it was the thing, that now, now it went, so he had been at that previous, uh, event over there in Central Europe and then came to Slush, but then left from there then, well, to check out the northern lights or whatever they did there in Northern Finland. Yeah, and it really is—even though we often wonder what there is to see, that, well, I see snow
clean snow, but a large part of the world's people have never seen clean snow ever. Yeah. So, so and starting from the very basics and good, good food and maybe berry wines, but I think even that the wine regions are moving north all the time, so who knows, maybe in 20 years we'll have excellent wines—nothing wrong with berry wine, yeah, and the sommelier, he handled it like, absolutely brilliantly, and here they have
only Finnish ingredients, like, full stop the coffee... this isn't quite coming out right, but it was really great, everything was memorable and in many fine dining dishes there is lichen nowadays, and we eat lichen like in fine dining, and you wouldn't have believed that 10 or 15 years ago, that yeah, but it has that pure, pure northern character, it is It's like really cool how it's spreading and how much initiative there is in it.
a lot, and I also visited some Finnish cottages, and I thought that was also like really cool, and I was kind of secretly sketching the owner there, and he was trolling me a bit, saying 'Sami, if you don't jump from here' correctly, you'll die in that swamp', but well, I can think that in a way it brought, I mean, that cottage too would be and was an experience for me, so for a volunteer like that, this part of the center is a bit
different and attracts exactly those vegans here, like a group jump from here, something like this, and well, storytelling, storytelling and well, exactly.
I mean, I was looking at those too, the fell silhouettes, they really are really magnificent, yeah, it really brought, like a tear to my eye, and this, this too was quite, it is, yeah, and then this kind of Lapland exoticism and magic, and then these things that are there, I mean, truly it's not just that four-winds hat business, and there's nothing wrong with that either but there's just a lot of, specifically closeness to nature, there's just something, something Finnish about it
It is, it's exactly like that, and as we continue that storytelling and deepen it, it will be good, and one thing that strongly belongs to this is something that maybe isn't always considered in Finland, that this is indeed so with NATO membership and this whole side, from an international perspective, we are quite close to our eastern neighbor, which is currently rampaging over there, so
we might not always realize ourselves how big and challenging an issue it has been for example, in terms of foreign tourism. Now we are part of the NATO framework, and especially Nordic cooperation and all other similar defense cooperation efforts, they have had a huge significance for everything, of course, our real estate ownership and more, but for instance, for tourism and
Lapland tourism, it's a great thing. Yes. Maybe finally on this topic before we move on to the world champion's events over there at Levi. So now that I've gotten to know you through this board work as well, we use a Finnish app, Contractzen—I haven't quite warmed up to it, but it's a good app for board work—so maybe a few words about that, sort of
owner-board-management. First of all, a public shout-out to Roope Hagberg, that he is like an absolutely first-class CEO, and that's of course probably the first thing, that a board isn't worth anything without an excellent CEO, but how do you see that OHJ triangle?
Yeah, this is an interesting entity in the sense that There are quite a few things that can already be explained through theory.
That's how it should be, but then there is quite a lot of that dynamics and the business-related whole. But if we now talk about owners, then it's about understanding the owners' responsibility.
That is one thing, and owner responsibility involves creating an owner strategy and not just creating it but also communicating it. And that is largely where it begins. And the strategy doesn't need to be some hundred-page opus, but a single A4 statement. But it is decided together with the owner what is owned, how, and where they want to go, and maybe a bit about values and such, because after that...
it is significantly easier for the board to operate then. Well, before the board operates, then that group must be selected, and that is also the decision of the owners and, in a limited company, the general meetings, and well, this is where it comes in: what is it there, is it a growth strategy, or some other type of technology-related startup or whatever it may be, that's where the
decision is made and then the right team is chosen for it, and I personally strongly encourage that they are fixed-term, if the strategy is for three or five years, then mainly you look for that team and then for 그 area of competence a bit in different ways. there needs to be diversity as well for the team to function,
but I would start building it through competence and then after that, we try to match it with the management— management, of course, the CEO is perhaps the most important recruitment that the board makes, and quite often, including myself, we have failed in that, but you mentioned Fredman
Group and Roope Hagberg, where in 2018 it was decided—I was the CEO until then, and that was the best decision I've ever made, to get a professional manager there, and it's been a reasonably long A reasonably good path has been trodden, but it also involves the fact that there is competence related to the company strategy, like, no one knows everything. But then
the CEO builds a team around it so that the whole entity is then better than average, or at least that's the goal.
Yeah. And Roberts is just a damn hard-working guy. That too is about this 'clock speed'—in a way, if you have a CEO who does what is agreed and works quite a lot, then it's just a wonderful thing, whereas there are those who aren't always like that, and those should probably be replaced, absolutely. And I mean, it is like Anyway, tipping my hat to you, you also did a great job in that you still managed to...
...I mean, branding and major changes even during your own time.
Yes. Yes. Yeah, but still, a person is wisest when letting go...
...and, well, but yeah, absolutely that cadence is very important to keep...
...delivering, but then that's where the difficulty lies, that you also have to then...
...be able to develop and, while on the run, still think about...
...things, the direction and so on. And that is actually quite a difficult equation.
Of course it's teamwork, the board and management dynamic, where from time to time we look at...
...the strategy and whether we're heading in the right direction, but regardless, it's...
...contradictory, because especially in a production-oriented company, you...
you're trying to optimize your lines and logistics and everything disruptions are always bad. Well, then some board comes and tells you now we're going to slightly change this direction, and it's like a catastrophe and then you have to be able to live with that combination nonetheless. So maybe let's throw in one curveball then. You are a relatively new, well, investor and the chairman, is it, of the board in this Green Planet Astronauts, so if I throw a bit of a challenge now, tell us how it feels
in these early stages to grow that company, and tell us what this Green Planet Astronauts does. Is this some kind of NASA satellite supplier?
Because it sounds like there's a space squad there too, but it's extremely great, really growth company, a startup of course, but I would classify it as a young growth company and and that's what's fascinating about it, meaning it makes plant-based baby foods and and and as a completely new brand, a new entrant to that category and has currently been able to challenge these global mammoths already, so something is being done right there, and has also been done before
me, which is a good thing of course, but then this traditional great team, like the whole team, founders and all, so the clock speed is extremely high there as it should be in this type of company, so it is one thing. But then what I could, or at least aim to bring, is then its like its growth and scaling, and especially this kind of food retail in the picture, well, it's really not easy, but at this
moment in all stores, in all the large, large, well, grocery stores that can be found in Finland, and there's that international angle still coming. But then maybe another really big challenge, that now that plant-based baby food and, well, in that of course that category is being expanded too, but this snacking, meaning this kind of snackification, that's where this world is headed,
meaning it's coming like 80, yeah, but also for young people, young people and then for adults too, and this is a completely new category we've identified and it's building up in the Finnish markets as well and globally and together we are currently discussing this with the store, like what if we could get a bit more shelf space there, well, where we could have these healthy snacks, it's about like this type of thing, of course as soon as you think about snacking, there's like chips
and others, uh, that's one, one bad, bad path, but now and then protein bars and these protein-type ones came in quite strongly, but well, but now this category is really growing and then we are aiming to bring something there now as well yeah, I have to admit, I also sometimes eat my daughter's fruit pouches I like to eat them, so it could definitely expand to men and absolutely, and quite a few, even if they don't have, especially small children
parents know very well because it's there, and it has that convenience factor meaning it’s easy, fast, and if it were also healthy, then it’s quite a good combination, and of course there’s also this sustainability angle, the plant-based aspect, and another interesting thing about Green Planet Astronauts is that, well, as we know, Finns have so many allergies, and for instance nut allergies, so they are now with HUS currently testing that when you're exposed from a very young age
to, for instance, nuts, you won’t necessarily develop that allergy and this is also an interesting health perspective in this whole business concept, getting that protein in there as well yes yes yes yeah and well but yeah uh challenging challenging industry overall when we know food food startups that but really extremely interesting yeah and here so it might be that this
opportunity already passed, but well a competent CFO is leaving so this at least at the time of filming you can still well maybe through you just contact Peter Fredman so if you are a growth company CFO yes and Milla Westerling is the other CEO founder there.
but yes yes such an interesting case and good. Well now I've already teased this well Formula world champion we move over to the Insider side. Since you've already watched or listened this far, so, well, be sure to subscribe to the channel and support and favor Finnish and these mentioned businesses, as it all benefits us at home. But let's suggest we go over to the inner circle, Peter. Thank you for the visit. Thank you very much!